Hello, welcome to the MainTalk, I'm your host Qin Yi.

The Chinese lunar New Year--the year of mouse is coming. Coinciding with the start of Spring Festival, the UK will host a great event --"CHINA NOW" to showcase the contemporary China, which may be Europe's biggest-ever celebration of modern China.

On February 7th, the first day of the Chinese Spring Festival, London will hold a lantern lighting ceremony. It's part of their "CHINA NOW" series, which is the largest ever Chinese cultural festival to take place in the UK. Starting with the Chinese New Year celebrations, the festival includes 6 months worth of nationwide exhibitions, performances and activities.

A lot of preparation is on the way on the part of both Britain and China. On January 17th, the sound of drums heralded CHINA NOW's official unveiling in China. Between the Chinese New Year and the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics in August this year, CHINA NOW is highly welcomed by both British and Chinese guests.

We've seen over the last couple years, huge opportunities for China now. We see more and more cultural manifestations from China as well, so people will get a chance also to see things they haven't before, like shaolin monks, or the national ballet of China, which has a great international reputation.

As far as my colleagues are concerned, many of them have been to China. They understand China on the superficial bases, but definitely, they don't have any understanding in terms of China's culture, because it takes a long time to understand it.

What are the highlights of the festival? How can "CHINA NOW" strengthen the understanding between China and the UK?

To talk about these issues, we are joined this week by Simon Heale, Chief Executive of China Now.

Simon Heale is Chief Executive of China Now.

He was educated at Winchester College and Oriel College, Oxford. In 1979, he joined the Swire Group in Hong Kong and spent the following 18 years with there. During that time, he acted as Director and Chief Operating Officer of Dragonair and Deputy Managing Director of Cathay Pacific Airways. In 1997 Mr. Heale was appointed Group Finance Director at Jardine Fleming Limited in Hong Kong and in 1999 he was appointed Chief Operating Officer. He moved back to London in July 2001, and became Chief Executive of the London Metal Exchange until October 2006.

Mr Hill , welcome to the main talk.

Thank you very much.

Tell us about the china now , what kind of the festival is it ?

It’s the festival that started a couple of weeks in Chinese New Year and runs until the end of July. or effectively the start of the Olympic games. And it’s across the UK, it’s everywhere in the country, and at the moment we have about 800 the events in total. All major cities are involved. Where there is Edinburgh, London, Manchester, and Birmingham, Liverpool and so on.

Do you have any idea or estimation that how many people will participate in it ?

We really have extraordinary interest in London in the First Emperor exhibition in British Museum which is breaking all records. So over half million people will be, 500000 people have been to that. So I think we will count millions in the end.

What kind of events will be included.

We will try to do is a mixture of everything because we want to cover all of modern China, so its arts, culture , music, literature, education, business, sport and so on. So most of aspects we have found or discovered what people have expressed their interest in we hope all be covered.

Give us a specific, just tell us one of the , some of these events, very interesting.

If you took part in the major ones, as the first emperor in the British Museum, which is the first time that kind of terracotta warriors got out of China. We have major exhibition of Victoria Albert called China design now, which focuses on the explosion of modern art design now in Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing.

It’s an exhibition of things designed by Chinese artist?

Its things, its videos, its architect, it is introducing people to the range of vitality of designs in China. We have dance in royal opera, we have Chinese opera saddlers as well, we have exhibitions, museum and we have literature including, I think the publication of book by Jiang Rong called Wolf Totem.

As the name suggest, China now will focus on contemporary China, so how can you emphasize China Now present, how can you do that?

What we try to do is to expose people in the UK to the range of China. Frankly, a lot of people think of China, as working very hard, producing goods for the rest of the world, and still think big mysteries, big distant. the massage we want to get across is China is not what people traditionally think of it. And you’ve got to engage with China, not just in business terms, but also in culture terms, education terms. What we doing is talking about China as it is today, and that’s why I’m emphasizing modern art there are a lot of Chinese art which is becoming world-famous as we know.

You are going to invited a lot of performers and artists from China, to participant in this events, so how do you make that decision, I mean how do you choose what performers or what artists, what designer to invite because you have to reflect contemporary Chinese society, right?

To perfect all these we relied on the experts who work in the theaters who deal with the museum with the art galleries because they are the ones who cares. If you are going to ask who create the whole festival, the answer is we didn’t create the festival as whole. The individual sections are created by experts in that field.

But obviously you can’t avoid to show cases of these, you know, traditional Chinese heritages either, right? Since you mention heritage, things like terracotta warriors and others like Beijing opera, they can’t be avoided.

Those things are in the festival as well. Because certainly something I believe you can’t understand a present day without putting it in the historical context, and terracotta warriors and Chinese new year’s celebration, lantern things, even Chinese food in England is, trust me, is not as good as Chinese food here. Although we have some people who are familiar with, but it is border than that taking that as base and moving forward.

Apart from those exhibitions, performances, are you goanna have some seminars to teach people about contemporary Chinese society and things like that?

There are numbers of seminars; there will be held business seminars in a number of places. We have got conferences on sustainability, on the environment, on urbanization, and we want to choose close conferences where people will be discussing subjects and we getting high-level participants there to engage in the field relationships.

You’ve specifically called on the engagement of Chinese community in the UK to engage in the activity, and you said that Chinese community should seize every opportunity to become world visibly in all areas, what did you mean by that?

There is big Chinese community across the UK. is economically very successful, academically high achieving, but relatively low profile, here you have I think opportunity with China Now for these communities to take part in of it, because what I am always talking to them is China Now as an umbrella which is there for them to take advantage of.

How could "CHINA NOW" be run more effectively, in order to make a bigger impact?

Since September 2007, the biggest exhibition of China's famed terracotta warriors at the British Museum has drawn a huge crowd.

I think the experience here seeing the warriors is quite different from that in China. Here you can look them face to face,look them in the eye,see how tall they are, see the details of them. Each one is different.

The exhibition helps the British people learn about China, and the year of 2008 may enhance their understanding of the country. Now that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has paid his first official visit to China, it's time for "CHINA NOW" to launch in the UK - in the year of the Beijing Olympics. The festival was conceived almost 2 years ago by a group of British businessmen and organized by an independently funded, non-profit institution. Both the Chinese and UK business communities, as well as their governments, sponsor the event.

China Now is initiated by a group of private business leaders of entrepreneurs and what is the motivation here?

I think people who got it going which include Parker the chairman of Brrunswick, Steven green, the chairman of HSBC. What’s They felt there was a gap here and this could filled by festival like this, so they are ones who got it going, brought me in and say right and take this vision and turn it into reality. What I am providing is the organizational discipline, direction and control. The sponsors are providing the money and money flows to China Now, to the cultural organizations and educational institutions, for them to spend.

If you go out on the street in the UK, in London or in anywhere else in the UK, and just ask some one, “What do you know about China? What’s your impression on China? What do you think of China?” what will they say usually? Is a Chinese food or monkey king or what is it?

H: HSBC carry out a survey recently, which they did it both in the UK and China, and what was interesting of the Chinese sample who were interviewed 46% knew the prime minister of UK was either Tony Blare or Gorden Brown, with other names are informed. 7% of the British respondents knew Hu Jingtao. what is much more worrying for me 7% of the British respondents think Mao Zedong is still running China. Now that is an example where they are out of date; they are lack of information.

But lack of information, you see China in the newspaper everyday, you see news, stories about China, so what do you mean lack of information?

You know about China primarily in the economic context, you know about China in terms of the expanding growth and potential as it perceive for climate change issues coming out of that with a lot of more power stations. You tend not to have articles about monkey king, you tend not to have articles about modern dance or 798 in Beijing. I think there is a lot of coverage of China, but it tends to be on the certain roads we fix the lines. And that’s why I think China Now is about diversify that knowledge.

Your goal is really to provide a comprehensive understanding of the Chinese culture Chinese society right? So who are the people that you want to impact and influence the most through these events?

I think the area really matters to me the most of all is the education side because I think when you talk to primary school children, secondary school children and university students, you are engaging in the next generation. We’ve got grants the schools could apply for. For Chinese culture day and either the Chinese theater group or opera group come and they will have a culture exposure. So the children will see the opera or Chinese theatre in the flesh. We’ve got a competition, hundred-word plays; the idea is the school will write hundred-word plays. The origin of this is, I believe, collecting from the Beijing taxi drivers, who expected to learn a hundred words of English, so it kind gives you the interesting challenge within that constraint to construct a story. Will be want school children do it in English, if they can do it in mandarin the same story, they will be filmed and the best one we would be prized. And the last thing which of me I believe very passionate here is through the British council, we want to twin the schools in England and schools in China, and I love this idea, if it works, of school children, the old forms of pen power they used to be when I was a child, you know can they communicate by internet, can they send emails, can they share each other first Chinese characters or their first English poem, and that I think will be very powerful.

Last year, there were 75000 Chinese students study in the UK, and in fact your prime minister Golden Brown during his visit in China, he has announce plans to expand the communications and exchanges in students and especially graduated school students between the two countries. So this fits your program, right?

It absolutely do right. I think that engagement of students, and one of things I would like, in return, maybe for the Chinese students, when they tends to here and when they come to England, they working incredibly hard, they are very focus on their studies, and they do very well, and I will encourage them to, also, take a little bit time off and engage more, maybe teach in local schools, become ambassadors for their country.

China Now coincides with the 2 month China in London events hosted or organized by London mayor’s office. And just in recently years, we have a lot of China culture year in various countries like in Russia in UK and etc. so how can China Now make a difference, how can it be , you know, complementary to these government effort to promote more culture exchanges between the two counties?

“China in London” which is now in its fifth year, has been huge successful. And the mayor of London is a great fan of China, and greatly involved. And that’s often given us an element which is already there. I think we are doing for longer, with more events and wider geographic ranges. I think that’s our big distinguish factor.

A lot of people got there and enjoyed events and enjoyed performances, loved the food but it ends there, nothing is really learned about China afterwards, how do we avoid that? How effective are these events actually?

China Now is not over 6 month going to sought out all the problems, it is not to make everybody a China expert, so I think it is a gradual process which is why the education side matters so much. It takes time, it’s not a one hit solution. So every person has a Chinese meal and maybe when he has suddenly discovered Confucius did live in China or there is a Chinese delegation visiting the UK next month or there is ballet done in China. and over time, they will be effective.

I know business opportunity is the goal of such events but as the side of it, could also bring business opportunities, for example, I have a figure here the 2007 China year in Russia brought 21business deals and that’s the total of $4 billion dollars.

when we talk about the sponsorship, it wasn’t about the meet to return, returns in investment, amount of sells, it was about an investment in a longer-terming engagement and I have to say my sponsors and in that I will include the Chinese companies, it was very gratifying to get Chinese companies like Ping’an, Jili and bank of communications, lenovo, CICC, so they will come, all involved with us, supporting us engaged.

How was the feedback from Chinese business community because you know CSR cooperate and social responsibility it’s a big thing in the western world, but it just start picking up in China.

It was a harder sell than in the western in Hong Kong both of which were very emergent very supportive. I think the biggest selling point to mainland companies is that we were promoting China as a whole, their homeland abroad. It was like telling the world about China, about the changes, about what is happening, so for them, I think it was something of interest. Because they take pride quite rightly in their country and the opportunity promote that. I mean said that some of them did say why would I give you money to do that but I can spend it myself. So I would say I can do very effectively for them. But some of them are not yet persuaded, but I’ll make a prediction for you, I think I’ll do this again in 4 years time, it will be much easier to engage Chinese companies.

After years of working in international finance, how does Simon Heale lead "CHINA NOW"?

Simon Heale is a leading figure in international finance and a qualified chartered accountant. He is the former chief executive of the London Metal Exchange, which is the largest base metals futures exchange in the world.

Mr. Heale left the Exchange in 2006 and since then has been dedicated to leading "China Now". Having lived in Asia for 22 years and having visited China several times, Simon shows great interest in promoting "China Now".

Why? Because China matters. It's one of the largest countries in the world with the largest population. But I think one of the reasons is the extraordinary range of change and diversity of China.

Why did you resign from the LME CEO post after having been working there successfully for 5 years.

H: broker are interesting job, they’re fantastical lord of people but they are quite demanding, and 5 and a half years working with a dedicate set of brokers was probably enough for me.

There was also rumors or arguments that said you were under great pressure when you step down. What’s the story there?

The answer is no I was not. It was entirely my decision. And think the evidence of that is that is was announced I was going in May and actually I was left at the end of the year, six month later. If somebody in the west is under huge pressure of business, he goes straight away.

The reason why people was sort of guessing is because at that time you’ve just start initiating a new project, right? But then you left.

I think that’s a fair point. Actually what we start to do is looking for a steel futures, but the steel is probably the biggest market out there for exchanges like LME. The problem with launching a new project on exchange is not something you do in 3 or 6 months; it’s maybe an 18-month process. And then you would probably got 2 to 3 years when it backs down to be successful. So what I’m thinking is yes I got it going, I put the team in place, but if I don’t leave now after 5 and a half years, then it probably commit me to ten years. And five and a half years is enough for broker and ten years will definitely be too much.

Did you know where you were going next?

No, because what I decided was what I was going to do a not executive career, and I was on the board of various companies and I was going down that route when I left the LME.

And you join this China Now?

What happen I was run up at the middle of December by one of my vice chairman James, who ask me if I was interested in exploring it. I have to be honest, say by this time I have been at home for a month and my wife and youngest daughter

They don’t want to see you any more

Happy to see me in the evenings but not during the day. So it’s clearly the message thank you very much, lovely but

It’s clearly on the faces

Yes, I got run up and I’ve lived in Asia lived in Hongkong and Japan for 20 years as a part of world I feel passionately about. And suddenly somebody invites you to run a festival, to introduce your homeland, to a country you are fond of has been very good to you. And sometimes they offered you such a challenge you just can’t say no to.

It’s a totally different arena, you know, you’ve worked in business, you’ve worked in air lines, you’ve worked in LME, you deal with cooper and steel and all of a sudden it’s culture exchange.

H: I’ve changed quite a lot. This is a change; it’s more dramatic, I fully accept. But you’re quite right, in my background, there is nothing to suggest that I’m an extremely culture person. But I like challenges.

Is it more fun than the exchange.

It’s different. I have to say it’s more different than anything else does. I have this enormous respect for the whole cultural community because the challenges putting on events, raising money, culture engagement is very difficult and they do a fantastic job. There is no doubt when you are in a business, a stable business with building revenues you understand your cost structures; it’s easier to manage than something is diverse as this is. But it’s been fantastic fun and I love it.

The focus in probably different as well, right? In the past you probably focused on your margins your bottom line.

You’re quite right. If you’re in the business, I can tell you about the cash flow, I can tell you about the bottom line, sharehold, value, and balance sheet all of that was my obsession. What is interesting about China Now, not for profit what we do it to break even, which is a very odd concept for me you know you don’t make any profit, I spend everything what about reserves what about planning for the future? So it’s very different concept.

You said you’ve lived in Asia for almost 20 years and you said it has a very huge influence on you; you love this part of the world. So did this experience give you an unique perspective of understanding the Chinese culture and has it been able to inspire you to the current post, you choice to join China Now?

I think certainly my experience in Hangkong having been visiting China for nearly 23 years did inspire me to take this job. I have to be a little bit cautious because as a businessman, although I visited China dozens of times, like most business man, I know the airplanes, the airports, the hotels, the offices so I think I had a lot of exposure to China. I’ll be cautious in saying I understand in fact culturally in terms of diversity I learn more in the last year than I probably did in the last 20. what I do have is the interest in China, and passion about it and really excited about what’s going on.

You’re working on China Now, how do you ensure that your effort can be long-lasting, can last into the future when it ends.

This is a good question.

You want that to happen?

Absolutely. One of the things I’m being told by my board China Now must has a legacy. And that’s why I think the area where we are going to be most effective. Because I take your point, you going visit the first emperor when you see Shao Lin monks, whatever, it’s one of the events you will feel that’s why education matters; that’s why engaging children, engaging students, telling them all, broadening their approach, opening their eyes. So I think the legacy of China Now the primary will be the educational understanding.

Is that possible that you yourself will be involved in education?

My wife is a teacher and she tells me I cannot teach anything to anyone. So my wife will do it, I won’t.

This is a long-lasting, it’s gonna be 6 months, but there’s gonna be a time when it ends. So what are you going to do afterwards?

The honest answer is I don’t know. I have my not-executive directorships that will carry on. I think having been working in business world for 32 years this is the first time I’ve done something that really has a social contribution and I really enjoyed it. And I think I’m getting into a stage in my life where I can do more for society. So carry on doing my none-executive directorships, I’ll look for couple of new challenges and I’d like to do something in the charitable sector.

欢迎来到《惊言堂》，我是主持人秦忆。

鼠年新年即将到来，在春节到来之际，英国将举行“时代中国”，这个活动将展示当代中国的风采，有可能成为欧洲规模最大的展示中国现状的活动。

2月7日是中国的农历新年，这天伦敦将举行点灯庆典，这是时代中国系列活动的一部分。时代中国是英国有史以来规模最大的中国文化节，除了农历新年的庆典，历时6个月的文化节将包括全国范围内的展览、演出和各项活动。

中英两国正在进行积极的筹备工作。1月17日，在锣鼓声中，时代中国正式在中国揭幕活动将从中国新年持续到8月北京奥运会开幕，这一活动受到了中英两国人民的欢迎。

我们在过去几年中看到了展示当代中国的巨大机遇，看到了越来越多来自中国的文化展示。现在人们将看到从未见过的表演，比如少林高僧、中国芭蕾舞，这些都在国际享有盛誉。

我的很多同事经常旅行，有许多也来过中国。他们对中国有着粗浅的了解，但肯定对中国文化不了解，因为这需要很长时间。

时代中国有哪些亮点？它将如何增进中英两国间的了解？

本周，就这些问题，我们采访了时代中国的执行总裁姚世敏。

姚世敏是时代中国的执行总裁。

他曾就读于温彻斯特学院和牛津大学奥列尔学院。他于1979年加入香港太古集团，并在那里工作了18年，在此期间他担任了港龙公司总监、首席运营官，国泰航空副执行董事。1997年姚世敏被任命为香港怡富集团金融总监。1999年改任首席运营官。他于2001年7月返回伦敦，出任伦敦金属交易所首席行政官，直到2006年10月。

姚先生您好，欢迎来到《惊言堂》。

谢谢。

和我们说说时代中国这个活动，这是一个怎样的盛典？

这次活动从08年中国春节开始，会有几周的庆典活动。之后一直持续到7月底，也就是北京奥运会开幕之前。活动遍及整个英国，在全英国各地开展。届时总共会有大约800项活动，所有主要城市都会参与进来。比如爱丁堡、格拉斯哥、伦敦、曼彻斯特、伯明翰、利物浦、布莱顿等等。

您估计届时会有多少人参与？

之前在大英博物馆举行的秦始皇兵马俑展览，已经得到了史无前例的关注。参观人数打破了历史纪录，共有超过50万人去参观，我估计最终会有数百万人，参加时代中国活动。

会有什么样的活动？

我们试图综合各种各样的活动，因为我们想要涵盖当代中国的各方面，包括艺术、文化、音乐、文学、教育、商务、体育等各个方面。人们最感兴趣的那些方面，我们都希望包括进来。

能具体讲一下，有哪些让人感兴趣的活动？

谈到一些主要的活动，比如大英博物馆的秦始皇兵马俑展。这是第一次有如此多的兵马俑在外国展出，在维多利亚阿尔伯特博物馆也有重要展出，就是当代中国设计展。主要展出深圳、上海、北京等地的大量当代艺术设计。

主要展出的是中国艺术家的设计吗？

展出的各种东西，包括录像、建筑等等。都是让人们了解中国在设计上的活力。英国皇家歌剧院将上演中国的舞蹈，伦敦沙德勒维尔剧院将有京剧表演，还有博物馆的展览。另外还有文化方面的活动，包括中国作家姜戎写的《狼图腾》一书的首发会。

就如它的名字一样，时代中国关注的是当代中国，如何做到这一点呢？怎样能更好地展示中国的现状？

我们要向英国人展示中国的方方面面。坦白地说，很多英国人觉得中国人工作十分努力，为世界各地生产商品，还认为中国是遥远而神秘，我们想要传递的信息是中国不像人们以前想的那样，现在和中国的交往不应仅限于商务层面，而应扩展到文化、教育层面。我们的活动是展现中国的现状，因此我们关注当代艺术，我们将展出很多中国艺术品，这些都是非常有名的。

你们会从中国邀请很多表演者和艺术家来参加这个活动，在人选上是怎么决定的？如何选择邀请哪些表演者 艺术家、设计师来代表当代中国社会？

为了能尽量做的完美，我们请教了专家，他们在剧院工作。和博物馆、画廊打交道。他们是这方面的专家，如果要问谁举办了整个活动，答案不是我们组委会，而是各领域的专家

分别负责各个部分的活动。

但是也要展示中国传统文化，比如你提到的兵马俑、京剧等等，这些都是无法回避的。

这些也会在盛典中展示，因为我相信如果脱离了历史就无法理解当下兵马俑、中国春节、舞狮等，甚至在英国的中国菜，当然不如当地原汁原味的好吃。所有这些人们都熟悉，但还有更多的东西需要了解，把这些熟悉的东西作为基础，然后了解更多的东西。

除了展览和表演之外，你们还会举办研讨会，向人们讲述当代中国社会等内容吗？

的确有很多研讨会，在一些地方会有商务研讨会，也有讨论可持续发展、环境保护、城市化等方面的会议。还有一些会议，人们能借此机会讨论各种议题，会上有高层的参与者，他们参与会议，互相建立联系。

你特别呼吁在英国的华人积极参与到此次活动中来。你曾说过华人社区应该抓住每一个机会，在更多领域发挥作用，能解释一下吗？

英国有一个庞大的华人社区，他们商业上很成功，学术上成就很高，但相对来说总体比较低调。时代中国是个机会，华人社区可以利用这个机会，因为我一直对他们说，我将时代中国描述成一把伞，他们应该好好利用。

如何才能使时代中国产生更大的影响

我们不可能在6个月的时间里解决所有问题，不可能让所有人都成为中国通。

你最想影响的是哪些人

2007年9月以来，大英博物馆举行了史上规模最大的中国兵马俑展览，吸引了大批游客。

我认为在伦敦参观兵马俑和在中国参观的感受不一样，在这里你可以面对面地观赏，注视塑像的眼睛，观察它们的高度

感受每一个细节，每一件兵马俑都是独一无二的。

此次展出有助于英国人了解中国，而2008年的活动也会增进他们对中国的了解。英国首相布朗近期对中国进行了首次正式访问，时代中国系列活动也借此契机在英国展开，并且恰逢北京奥运年。

这次活动是在两年前由英国商界人士发起，由一个独立的非营利机构组织，中英两国的商界和政府大力支持。

时代中国活动是由一些商业领袖和企业家发起的，这背后的动力是什么？

我认为该活动的创始人，包括博然思维集团主席艾伦·帕克，

汇丰银行主席斯蒂夫·葛霖，他们认为中英在认知上存在鸿沟，可以用类似时代中国这样的活动来填补。因此他们推动了这项活动，并邀请我加入，支持这样的设想并把它变成现实。我负责制定组织规则以及实施管理控制，赞助商提供了资金，资金通过时代中国提供给一些文化教育机构使用。

如果你在英国大街上，在伦敦或其他地方，随便问一个人对中国了解多少，对中国有什么印象，对中国怎么认识，他们通常会怎么说？是中国菜？还是孙悟空？还是别的什么？

汇丰银行最近开展了一项调查，在中国和英国两国进行调查

有趣的是46%的中国受访者知道英国的首相，是布莱尔或布朗。我认为这相当不错，受访的英国人中只有7%知道胡锦涛

更让我担心的是，7%的英国受访者认为，毛泽东现在还在领导中国。这个例子很好地证明了，他们对中国的了解已经过时了，缺乏信息。

但为什么会缺乏信息？你每天都能看到关于中国的报道、关于中国的新闻，怎么会缺乏信息呢？

英国人对中国的了解主要通过经济方面，中国经济的快速发展以及可能由此引发的气候环境变化问题,是否会建立更多的发电站等等.你不会看到有关孙悟空的文章，或者现代舞,或者北京798创意园区。的确有很多有关中国的报道，但是这些报道有它们的局限性。因此我认为时代中国活动，将丰富人们的知识。

时代中国的目标是让英国人对中国文化和社会，有个全面的认识，你最希望这个活动会影响哪些人？

我最重视的是教育方面，因为我觉得你把这些文化告诉小学生，中学生和大学生，你是在影响着下一代。我们提供了一笔资金，学校可以来申请，用于举行中国文化日活动。他们可以邀请中国戏剧或歌剧团向学生展示中国文化，学生们就可以亲眼看到戏剧或歌剧了。我们还举行了一个竞赛，百字剧本竞赛，让孩子们写一个一百个字的剧本，关于这个活动的灵感，我不知道我说得是否对，来自于北京的出租车司机，他们要学100个奥运英语单词，所以就有了这个有趣的挑战。

在100个字的限制下写出一个故事，我们要求学生用英语来写，但如果可以，就用汉字写，剧本会被拍摄成影片，最好的一部会赢得奖励。最后一件我十分想做的事情，是通过英国使领馆，让中国和英国的学校结对。我非常喜欢这个点子，如果这个点子能够奏效，就像我小时候一样，通过交笔友这种形式用网络来交流，发送电子邮件，与对方分享自己的第一部汉字小说，或第一首英语诗，我认为这会有很大的作用。

去年有7万5千名中国学生去英国留学，布朗首相访华时也表示，希望扩展中英学生间的交流，特别是研究生的交流，这个和你的计划很合拍。

确实是的，我想指出的一点是，对于中国留学生，人们总是说，中国学生来英国后非常勤奋，学习成绩也很好。但我鼓励他们花一点时间，去当地学校讲课，成为传播中国文化的使者。

时代中国活动与为期两个月的由伦敦市长办公室主办的，伦敦中国年活动同时举行。最近这些年，我们在很多国家开展中国文化年，比如俄罗斯、英国等，那么时代中国有何不同？如何和这些政府活动形成互补，促进两国间的文化交流？

伦敦中国年活动已经是第五年了，取得了很大的成功。伦敦市长利文斯通是个中国迷，他积极参与这项活动，这为我们的活动奠定了基础。我们的活动时间更长，项目更多，涉及范围也更广。我认为这是最与众不同的地方。

人们在参加文化活动的时候，经常只是观看表演、品尝食物，并没有对中国进一步的了解，如何避免这种情况

类似这样的活动究竟是否有效？

我们并不认为在6个月的活动中，能解决所有的问题。它不可能让每个人成为中国通，这是一个循序渐进的过程。所以我觉得教育很重要，这是需要时间的，不是一下子能解决的。人们通过品尝中国菜，可能了解到孔子原来生活在中国，或下个月有中国代表团访问英国，或有中国芭蕾舞表演，随着时间的推移效果就会出现。

这个活动的目的也许不是商业盈利，但它也许会带来商机。我这里有一些数据，2007俄罗斯中国年期间，签订了21项商业订单，总价值为40亿美元。

我们和赞助商谈的时候，并未强调能带来多少经济收益，这和投资或营销收益不同，它是长期的投资。我不得不说起我们活动的赞助商，其中包括中国公司，很感谢以下公司，包括平安保险、吉利汽车、交通银行、联想公司、中金公司等。它们都参与其中，支持此次活动。

中国公司的反馈如何？企业社会责任在西方非常重要，但在中国这个概念还比较新。

西方国家和香港地区的公司，非常支持这些活动。和它们相比，找中国大陆的公司赞助比较难。吸引中国大陆公司的卖点在于，我们将中国作为一个整体，她是你们公司的祖国，这次活动是向世界推广中国，呈现中国的变化，中国正在发生的事情。对此大陆公司很感兴趣，因为他们对祖国深感自豪，这也是宣传祖国的机会，不过也有些公司认为，它们可以自己决定把钱花在哪里，何必要把钱投资到英国去，我认为我们可以很有效地帮这些公司打理。但并非所有人都能被我们说服，不过我可以预言，如果我在4年后再组织一次，会有更多的中国公司愿意加入到活动中。

在国际金融界工作多年后，姚世敏将如何主持时代中国？

时代中国是非盈利性的，我唯一要做的就是收支平衡。这对于我来说很不可思议。

这比期货交易更有趣吗？

姚世敏是国际金融领域的领袖

他是一名注册会计师

他曾任伦敦金属交易所首席执行官

该交易所是世界最大的有色金属交易所

姚世敏于2006年离开交易所

致力于主持时代中国的工作

姚世敏在亚洲生活了22年

并且多次访问中国

他对推广时代中国的活动很有兴趣

你为什么辞去伦敦金属交易所首席执行官的职务？你在那里出色地工作了5年。

金属交易是很有意思的工作，交易员们都是很出色的人。但他们也都是要求很高的人，和这些高要求的交易员们共事5年半，对我来说时间已经够长了。

当时有传言说你是迫于压力而辞职的，是这样吗？

完全没有这回事，辞职完全是我自己的决定。事实上我在（2007年）5月份的时候就已经提出了辞职。而直到6个月后 在年底时，我才正式离开。在西方国家，如果有人感到了极大的商业压力，他肯定会立即辞职。

人们之所以有各种猜测，是因为当时你刚启动了一个新项目，但不久却离开了。

这样的猜测也很合理，我们当时正在开始钢铁期货的项目对伦敦金属交易所来说，钢铁可能是最大的市场。但要建立交易合同，3到6个月的时间是不够的，需要18个月。然后还需要2到3年的时间，来完成这个合同。我的考虑是，我已经使这个项目上马了。我已经找到了项目的执行团队，如果我不能在5年半内离开，可能就要投入10年的时间。对于和交易员打交道，5年半的时间已经足够了，10年就太长了。

当时想过接下来做什么吗？

没有，当时我决定从事行政管理，我担任了几个公司的非执行董事，离开了伦敦金属交易所之后，我就朝这个职业方向发展了。

接着你又加入了时代中国？

在12月中旬的时候，我接到一个电话，是公司副总裁詹姆斯打给我的。他问我是不是对时代中国有兴趣，坦白地说，

那段时间我在家待了足足一个月和我的妻子和最小的女儿。

他们不想再整天看到你了？

她们很高兴在晚上看到我，但不希望白天也见到我。

她们的意思很明确

非常感谢。但是，她们想说什么已经很清楚了。正好此时我接到了那个电话。我在亚洲，香港和日本生活了20年，我对亚洲充满激情，这时候突然有人邀请你去筹划一个盛典，向你的祖国介绍一个你很喜欢的国家，有些时候，有的机会和挑战，你是无法拒绝的。

时代中国是一个完全不同的领域，你曾经是个商人。你在航空公司工作过，在伦敦金属交易所工作过，你一直和铜铁期货打交道，而现在你却从事文化交流？

我变化很大，确实有了很大的转变，我承认。你完全正确，从我过去的经验看，没什么能证明我与文化有很大关联。但是我喜欢挑战，喜欢挑战。

这比金属期货交易更有趣吗？

不一样

我认为这和我做过的所有的事情都不同，我非常尊敬那些文化社区。这个活动饱含了很大的挑战，筹集资金、吸引人参与到文化项目中，这些都非常困难。而文化社区的工作相当成功，毫无疑问，当你在商界的时候，如果要建立稳定的业务，你要有创收，要了解合同，这些可能更简单些。但当事情变得多样化后，就很困难了，不过从事这项活动非常精彩，我很喜欢。

工作上侧重点也不同，以前你关注的是利润，是盈亏。

很对，如果我是一个商人，我关注的是现金流、盈亏、股份 、市值以及资产负债表，这些都是我打交道的内容。有趣的是，时代中国是非赢利的，我要做的只是达到收支平衡，这对我而言是很新奇的概念。不是为了赢利，却花这么多钱，我的回报是什么？以后又会怎么样呢？所以这个概念完全不一样。

你提到你曾在亚洲生活了20年，这对你影响很大。你很喜欢这片土地，这个经历是否让你对中国文化有了独特的视角。是不是也激励你担任现在的职位，选择加入时代中国？

当然，我在香港的生活。以及在将近23年的时间里，多次访问中国的经历，确实帮助我选择了现在的职业。但更谨慎一点说，作为一个商人，我来过中国很多次，和其他商人一样，我熟悉各个飞机的航班、机场、宾馆以及办公室。可以说我对中国了解了不少。但谨慎地说，在去年一年中，我对中国文化的了解比过去20年中了解到的更多，我对中国有极大的兴趣以及热情并对将要发生的变化感到兴奋。

你在时代中国工作，如何确保你们的努力会持续下去？甚至在活动结束以后。

这是一个很好的问题

你也喜欢能有长久的影响，对吗？

当然，我对董事会提到的一点就是。时代中国必须要有一个传承，我们要做到长期有效，我认同你的观点。如果你去参观了秦始皇兵马俑展览，或是了解了少林高僧，或者其它活动，这些都是很有价值的活动，这就是为什么教育很重要让孩子和学生参加进来，告诉他们更多关于中国文化的东西，开拓他们的视野，增长他们的见识。我认为时代中国所传承的内容中最主要的是对教育的重视。

你本人会参与到教育事业吗？

我妻子是一个老师，她说我不可能教书育人。所以就由她做吧，我就算了。

时代中国是个很长的活动，有6个月的时间。但总有结束的一天，之后你有什么样的打算？

老实说，我也不知道。我还在做行政管理工作，我在商界工作已有32年，时代中国是我第一次回馈社会。我相当喜欢，我想我现在所处的阶段，就是为社会做更多贡献，所以我会继续我的行政管理工作，寻找一些新的挑战，做一些慈善工作。

最后我们有一份小礼物送给你，这是中国传统的剪纸艺术，是你的肖像画。

Hello and welcome to the MainTalk, I'm your host Qin Yi.

As China develops quickly, environmental protection becomes an increasing concern. This is especially true for 2008, as Beijing intensifies its campaign for a "green Olympic".

With the Olympic Games drawing near, Beijing has intensified its efforts to curb air pollution. Earlier this month, new vehicle fuel standards were introduced in Beijing to help cut emissions. All gasoline and diesel sold in the capital must meet the new China IV standards, which are equivalent to the European Union's Euro IV standards. Additionally, Beijing Shougang Group, one of China's leading steel manufacturers and also the city's major polluter, extinguished a fire at one of its four blast furnaces in January, as part of its pledge to cut normal output by half during the Olympics.

Throughout 2007, Beijing saw 246 blue sky days, narrowly fulfilling its annual target of 245. A recent report by the United Nations Environment Program said Beijing was on course to hold a Green Olympics, but that air quality remained a problem.

How will Beijing successfully tackle the air pollution problem? What's China's most urgent need in terms of environmental protection?

To talk about these issues, we are joined this week by Mr. Dermot O'Gorman, China Representative of the World Wild Fund for Nature.

Dermot O'Gorman is the Country Representative of WWF-China. He is Australian. He joined WWF in May 1998 and since then he has worked as the Deputy Director, Asia Pacific Programme for WWF International in Switzerland, the Regional Representative of WWF South Pacific Programme and as the Head of Government and Aid Agency relationships at WWF UK in London.

He has two degrees in Environmental Conservation and a master degree in Environmental Policy and Assessment from the London School of Economics.

Mr. O’Gorman, welcome to the main talk. As the Beijing Olympics approaches, one big question facing all of us is how Beijing will fulfill its promise of increasing its yearly ratio of days with good air quality to 80%. So you’ve been the city for a while, as a local resident, as far as you’re concerned, how in range are we from that target?

Well, living here in Beijing for a couple of years, I’ve seen that the number of blue sky days have been increasing, I think we have seen some very bad days continuing, and some of this may be due to some weather pattern, but I personal experience is things are getting better, and what I think is important is that measure of the Chinese government and the Beijing government boarding in place now for the Olympics continuing to make those improvements after that year.

One of the worst problems in the city is really traffic and pollution brought about by traffics, we know last summer the Beijing government, you know, carried out an experiment, it’s a kind of an air quality experiment by restricting or limiting the number of motor vehicles on the world, you know by alternate even and odd numbered license place, How effective was that?

I think if you read the results they had around 50% in promotion in the quality, but I think obviously that’s a measure that you couldn’t take at only certain times of the years for example the Olympic, but the government is also doing much more now in Beijing on promoting public transport, you see the decreasing price in terms of metro, and might many number of new metro lines opening this year, promoting bus transport.

How do you commute here in Beijing? Do you drive?

I catch a combinational bus to work, often metro home, sometimes I turned to ride a bicycle if possible, and I also have a hybrid car, electric petrol car.

Did you drive last summer when Beijing carried out that experiment?

I think I try to catch the metro and bus as much as possible.

A lot of people doing that using public transportation.

I think that more people are using public transportation now, and things like electric bikes, a green bike to popularity the bikes, I think that’s important that we don’t lose some of the bike culture here in Beijing.

Do you think people doing this for the Olympics?

First of all, people are putting a lot of effort, Beijing is putting a lot of effort into promoting this city, this time, this year, the Olympics, but also I think that congestion is causing people to look at other solutions, going back to ridding a bicycle or better a public transport like the metros, just bus transports systems.

Apart from traffic, where else is the pollution coming from?

Industry pollution, and I think that’s important source that needs to be tackled and there I think we need the Chinese government is already doing some efforts in not only around Beijing, but along this coast on the shanghai and Guangzhou. And there are about bringing new technologies, like putting in systems that future a lot of these pollutions out, closing down small extremely polluting factories and plants.

The capital irons steel company recently suspend part of its manufacturing, actually it trying to cut its manufacturing capacity in half in order to reduce pollution by 70% during Olympics, so we can see companies are responding, so do you think they can sustain that effort even after the Olympics, that’s a big question.

That I think is an important part of modernization program about bring in closing down old less efficient plants and even looking into new ways to this or building high tech more efficient industries.

You think they will continue this effort even after the Olympics?

At environmental level there are targets and stabled prices need to contribute to meet the target, so I think all of us have a contribution to make, not just the industry but individuals as well.

I’ll talk about the individual sector later but I’ll focus on the enterprise sector first you know Beijing Olympics has attracted over the 50 co-op sponsors already, how to expect them to contribute to this green Olympic?

It’s interesting that many of co-op sponsors for the Olympics not only here in Beijing but in the other places like in Rangoon and London have seized on the green Olympics is being exciting part that they would like to contribute to.

But the trick is many of them are actually in the resource field, you know, the oil giants, it’s a kind of hard for them to be energy efficient because they are in this industry.

You are right, there are some companies which need to play a very important role in the future providing low carbon energy.

They have to sort of rebuild their image.

More than they just rebuilding their image, but looking at long-term sustainable energy solutions.

You’ve said that what is good for environment is also good for business, what do you mean by that?

One is the growing amount of companies going into renewable energy, so we far to suffer that. These companies who some years ago were very small but now becoming multi-hundred millions companies as they set up big operations, tapping into the growing market and demand for renewable low carbon energy. The other one is we companies can increase efficiency for all the supply chain and production chain. For example, we working with the Coco Cole Company here who just last year in June in Beijing the CEO and chairman make a pledge to be water neutral, that means they were being increasing the efficiency use of the water. They were also be recycling the water so is to put back clean water back into the environment.

You also mention actually suggested individuals can also contributed to this, so like athletes participating in the Beijing Olympics, and local residents and tourists, how they can actually do this?

Sure.

I mean I heard that you are promoting this idea or this project initiative of neutralizing our carbon emissions on web site, can you explain to us how that works?

Sure, this is something we called goal for gold, which is campaign to encourage the athletes around the world you know come to Beijing in the August this year, to become neutral that means they would buy an offset which is golden standard, which is a type of CDM carbon credit, yeah, of high standard and then they would offset their travel by air flights here to Beijing.

So you mean people can actually pay for their carbon emissions

That’s right, so you can pay for your carbon emissions that money will going to support our renewable energy project around the world.

Is it expensive?

It’s not expensive, no, one hour, offsetting one hour flight may cost you around about 15 to 20 RMB.

Ok. Where has been their response so far?

Well, I think we’ve been encourage by response around the world people are extremely interested.

And not just athletes right?

Not just athletes.

A lot of people are doing this.

And I think in China where there is a new concept at the time we are promoting this, a number of individuals in China sign up to website to offset their air flights or their car emissions. So I think in the first month we have 12 Chinese individual sign up so that’s a good step.

I hope a lot of people will join this effort.

I think so, yeah, but even people can’t do this, there are other things they can do in their every day lives like turning off their television set at the end of evening so their standby light goes, to use energy efficiency light bulb that if collectively 1.4billion people can make a big difference.

As the biggest developing country, what resposibility should China shoulder in tackling the chlimate change?

Environmental protection has become one of the main issues today throughout the international community. In December 2007, the United Nations climate change conference was held in Bali,Indonesia. The 12-day event ended with the adoption of the Bali roadmap, which has shown the way and set a timetable for future negotiations on global climate change between developed and developing countries.

In tackling the problem, China's position has been clear and consistent. As the biggest developing country in the world, China supports the principle of "common but differentiated responsibilities," which is shared amongst developed and developing countries alike.

China like many other developing countries is being accused of producing excessive greenhouse gas emission and its process of industrialization, we often hear a term called embodied energy. So what is it really? And why is it relevant here?

It’s a term which is still reasonably new not only china but also in the rest of the world as well. But it talks about the amount of energy is the production chain to produce a certain product. So if you are producing refrigerator for example the amount of energy they going to producing steel to producing manufacturing and putting together to shipping it to the customer to all those aspects calling many energy to make a finish product. the energy China uses provide those goods to other countries, so some of China’s emissions are in fact has resolved to providing a product to country like America.

So can we say that to a certain degree, China is actually paying the cost of pollution for some of the developed countries that consume “made in China” products, is it fair to say that?

We release report just before the Bali co-op which was such high preformed during China and the rest world. They show perhaps up to 25% of Chinese energy use is going on providing products for other developed countries.

China recently actually issue policies to restrict export of high-energy consuming products. So you see china is making an effort to reduce pollution and this process of industrialization. But to be realistic it takes a while for China to move up the manufacture ladder and you know adjust fully its export structure, so before it happens what can we do, you know, how can developed countries may be share this responsibility.

I think what the concept helps to do is to eliminate in a global discussion how important it come to a global solution for climate change. And it is not acceptable for countries like the US says, “well we are not going to do anything because china is becoming the largest CO2 emissions.”

The USA is taking a very exceptional stands on this, what about other countries? I know European countries have been able to set up a pretty good model right?

There are a number of European countries now that looking at substantial technology in transferring programs between with China and to providing financial system as well to help with that. So I think that is a model we should continue to see. Let me also emphasis that there are also many positive business opportunities that could come out of this. China is able to produce technologies often much cheaper than the rest world. So I’ll use light bulb for example Chinese produce the energy efficiency light bulbs they able to produce them much cheaper than could be produced in Europe. A calculation show that we can probably save 23 million tons of CO2, If the Europe was able introduce much more energy efficiency light bulb on cheaper, and more efficiency light bulbs.

International community has made agreements for example the Kyoto pact you’ve already mentioned and also the Bali roadmap to strike the balance between developing countries and developed countries but we also see countries like the US, they are still reluctant to rectify such an agreement or pact. So overall do you have any optimistic or pessimistic outlook for the future?

I have an optimistic outlook. We have seen a lot of movement in the last 12 months and in Bali although the US refuse to commit targets they did commit to a roadmap, which shows that, I think , that if you look at the US, the public opinion and business are taking this seriously. Many US cities signing up to their home type of carbon reduction emission targets. We see California, looking at California trading system, and we see a lot more interest in American public tourist thing. So I think we have the US elections this year as well, we saw the climate change played a big issue. In Australia actions where one party took a very negative view about Kyoto one and new prime minister took a positive view and he was successful. So I think they will properly see climate change play an important part in the US election as well.

How would you prioritize some of the possible options like you mentioned adaptation technology transfer and financial assistance? I know all those are important, all those must be carried out, but if you’re asked to prioritize that

No.1 is deforestation, must stop deforestation because we chopping down the forest in south Asia and Kango and there are also things like renewable technologies that they got to play a role. But other things like using in the short-term more gas rather than coal or oil, because gas is a cleaner solution.

So reducing coal burning

Reducing coal and oil and using more gas in the short term and I think that all of those would get us towards the target by 2015 to keeping below to the growth, but the ISAS says the key is the next 5 years, particularly next 5-10 years, we need to see some quick action now.

WWF engagement in China actually begin with the panda reservation protection project in 1980, but then your effects extended to other arenas in this country, so how do you think your role has changed the other years.

So in 1980, when we invite by the Chinese government, as you said we started work on pandas but we then branch out to work on other areas like forest conservation and water conservation. As a NGO here in China we can play I think three issues, first of all, we can bring ideas from around the world, and resources to help tackle Chinese environment programs, we can use due demonstration projects here in China, we perhaps sometime have element of risk , but as NGO， we can test out in the version of solutions we can adapt them to local circumstances, and then come out with practical solutions.

WWF is exactly more than a hundred countries around the global, how does your engagement in China different than elsewhere?

The engagement is very much focus on Chinese environment issues important to China. Some parts of China are gonna get drier, and some get wetter, and will also be more floods, more droughts, we will see a change in some of the high latitude wet lands in the northwest China, so in Qinghai glacier is retreating, wet land areas will change, so we’ll see water flows from some of the rivers, that starts in that area like the Yangtze River would see changes for that, and that’s going to impact everybody in China, you know, in Shanghai you couldn’t be isolated from the changes because the Yangtze River which Shanghai is the mouth is connected right to the areas going to affect our drinking water quality. Often we work on much broader scale issues, we’ve been promoting in the great river basin management here in the Yangtze River for the last several years.

What have you identify as the most urgent need in China in terms of environment protection, what is the worst problem?

One which I think is very important and most important is water issues, because water issues cut across a number of other environment issues as well. And you know that the state council places great importance on providing clean drinking water, protecting water source, because there will be a number of high profile cases in the last 2years of water pollution, the growing algae in the lakes

What are some other issues you mention there are several?

I think new issue is about Chinese ecological foot print and this is as China becomes more developed countries, consumption is increasing particularly along eastern side of China, and so we can see as individuals earn more money, they begin to consuming more products, and therefore have a big impact on foot print as we call it on this planet.

You have spent over 300million RMB in a hundred plus projects in China, what is the most effective efficient way of working things out in this country?

Raising awareness is very great important part. The second one I would say is some very practical demonstration of how you could address this problem, because without leading people for mental processed say ok, here is something i can do, it is not impossible, it’s not economic prohibitive and he comes out with some solutions, it’s really hard to get people change practice.

What are your future plans in China?

We would like to continue to work on the areas like the Yangtze River, which provides 40% of GDP to China, water issues are of critical importance and cities like shanghai, it can play very important role in the future, so for the example, shanghai will have a new program the last two years then we’re looking at a low carbon city and look at promoting low carbon solutions there, we also look at the impact of climate change may have as the sea level will rise, as changing the water flows may have impact on things like drinking water, and in the settlement of the Yangtze River and also this consumption issue as Shanghai people become affluent consuming more products

Ecological foot prints

So I think that something is going to keep us busy for a long time.

大家好，欢迎收看《惊言堂》，我是主持人秦忆。

在中国飞速发展当中，环境保护成为人们日益关注的焦点。尤其在2008年，北京正在全力以赴，举办一场绿色奥运。

随着奥运会的临近，北京正加强对空气污染的控制。本月初，新的机动车燃油标准公布，限制废气排放。所有在北京出售汽油和柴油，必须符合国四标准，等同于欧四燃油标准。另外， 北京首钢集团，中国钢铁制造的领先集团同时也是北京主要的污染企业，本月初，它的四大炼钢炉之一已经熄火，以兑现在奥运期间排放量减少一半的承诺。

在整个2007年，北京的蓝天日为246天，只比它全年计划的245天多一天。不久前，联合国环境项目的一份报告中提到，北京正在努力承办一个绿色奥运，但是空气质量依然是个问题，北京将怎样妥善处理大气污染问题？关于环境保护，中国最紧急的需要又是什么？

关于这个话题，我们有幸请到了欧达梦先生，他是世界自然基金会驻中国首席代表。

欧达梦先生是世界自然基金会驻中国首席代表，1998年5月加入世界自然基金会之后曾担任世界自然基金会瑞士总部亚太项目副主任、南太平洋项目区域代表、英国政府与援助组织关系经理。他获得两个环境保护学士学位，是伦敦大学经济学院环境政策和评估硕士。

欧达梦先生，欢迎做客《惊言堂》。

北京奥运会日益临近，我们面临的一大问题就是北京如何兑现增加年度优质空气质量天数达到全年80%的承诺。您已经在这里生活了一段时间，作为一个市民，您认为我们离这个目标还有多远？

我在北京已经生活了几年，我看到北京的蓝天数有所增加，空气不佳的状况继续存在。这部分是因为气候本身的原因，天气自然状况。但是情况正在好转、改善。我个人认为情况正在好转，我认为很重要的一点是，中国政府，北京政府，现在正在采取很多措施，而奥运会之后环境将继续变好。

城市中存在的一个严重问题就是交通，以及由此带来的污染问题。大家知道，去年夏天北京政府进行了一项测试，对空气质量进行检测。为了限制道路机动车数量，实行了汽车牌照单双号轮流行驶措施，不知效果如何？

我看过公布的结果，空气质量比原来提高了15%，当然这个措施只是在特定时期使用。比如奥运会期间，但是政府正在采取更多的措施，来改善北京的交通状况。如下调地铁票价，并且会有更多地铁线路在今年开通，大量增加公车运行。

在北京你每天怎么上下班，开车吗？

我坐公交车上班，一般坐地铁回家。在夏天如果可能的话我会骑自行车，我还有一辆混合动力车，用电和汽油驱动的车。

北京去年夏天开展那项测验的时候，你开车了吗？

我尽可能多地乘坐地铁和公交车。

很多人在那时候都选择乘公交吗？

我认为现在越来越多的人在使用公共交通而电瓶车这样的工具也让自行车重新开始受欢迎。我认为很重要的一点是，北京并没有丢失骑自行车的传统。

你认为人们这样做是为了迎接奥运吗？

首先，为了迎接奥运，北京今年正在积极地宣传城市形象。但同时交通拥挤状况，也让人们寻求别的解决办法，比如骑车或者使用更好的公交方式。坐地铁，以及发达的公交系统。

除了交通污染，还有哪些会导致污染？

工业污染，我认为这是一个急需处理的重要污染源。在这方面，中国政府也已经有所行动。不仅在北京，而且在东部，沿海城市上海和广州。是的，政府引进了新的技术，使用能减少污染物的系统，关闭那些污染严重的工厂和小企业。

北京的钢厂最近停止了部分生产，事实上将它的生产能力降低了一半。这是为了能在奥运期间将污染减少70％，大家看到企业都正在响应。您认为它们会在奥运结束后继续这样的做法吗？这是一个大问题。

关闭陈旧的效率低下的厂房，这对企业来说是进行现代化的一个重要过程，或者寻找新途建立起适用高新技术，高效率运作的工业方式。

您认为奥运结束后企业仍会这样做吗？

企业被要求进行环保还设立有目标，因此企业要为实现这个目标出力。为此我们所有人都要有所贡献，不只是企业方面，个人同样如此。

个人的作用我们稍后会讨论，首先讨论一下公司部分。北京奥运会已经吸引了50多家合作赞助企业，你认为它们会对绿色奥运有多大贡献呢？

有趣的是很多奥运合作赞助企业不仅在北京或者在其他一些地方。比如仰光啊伦敦啊，都把绿色奥运作为它们非常感兴趣，想要出力的一种动力。

但问题是，很多公司都是能源领域的。比如大的石油公司，它们如果要节能非常困难，因为它们本身就是这个产业。

你说得对，在将来提供低碳排能源上，这些公司发挥着非常重要的作用。某种程度上它们要重新树立企业形象，不仅仅是重建企业形象，而是要着眼长期的持续性的能源解决方式。

你曾说过，对环境有益的同样对商业也有益，为什么这样说？

一是越来越多的企业正在寻求可循环能源，这些公司几年前的时候规模很小，现在已经成为身价几亿美元的大公司。因为它们建立起了规模庞大的运营，并且打入了逐渐增长的对循环能源低碳排放提出需求的市场。另一方面原因是，公司能够在供应链和生产链上提高效率。比如我们正在和可口可乐公司合作，去年6月在北京，公司的首席执行官和董事长做出了实现水平衡的承诺。这意味着他们在利用水上更加高效，他们还将循环再利用水资源，使干净水再回到环境当中。

您说到也建议个人可以为环保做出贡献，参加奥运会的运动员。当地市民，以及游客，他们能做到吗？

当然可以

我听说在网上，你们提出了“碳中和”建议。您能解释一下吗？

意思是组织一场“夺金路 碳中和”的活动，鼓励那些今年八月份从世界各地来北京的运动员，能做到碳中和。他们购买碳信用额，这是国际清洁发展机制项目中制定的黄金标准，是一个很高的标准。购买碳信用额可以用来抵消，来北京参赛途中乘坐飞机所产生的二氧化碳排放量。

你意思是人们购买自己产生的碳排放？

没错，你购买自己的碳排放，这些钱会用到全球范围内，那些支持循环能源的项目中。

购买费贵吗？

不贵，抵消一小时飞行的二氧化碳排放需要花费15到20块人民币。

目前人们的反应如何？

世界上很多人都对这个很感兴趣，我们很受鼓舞。

不仅是运动员对吗？

不仅是运动员，每个人都在这样做。在中国这是一个很新的概念，我们推广这个概念的时候

一些中国人在我们网站上签了协议，补偿他们飞行中的碳排放。在第一个月，就有12个中国人这样做，这是一个好的开端。

希望有更多的人能够加入进来。

我同意，即使人们不能这样做，日常生活中还可以做其他很多事情。比如深夜的时候关掉电视机，有效利用能源使用节能灯，聚少成多，14亿人起到的作用会不同凡响。

中国作为最大的发展中国家，应该在气候变化中担负怎样的责任？在全球范围的商讨中，重要的是如何达成全球共识。能否这样说，某种程度上中国正在为污染埋单？

如今，环境保护已经成为了国际社会关注的主要问题。2007年12月，在印尼巴厘岛举行了联合国气候大会，在为期12天的大会结束时，会上通过了“巴厘岛路线图”。路线图规定了发达国家和发展中国家今后在全球气候变化问题谈判上的时间表。在处理气候变化问题上，中国的态度清晰且始终如一。作为世界上最大的发展中国家，中国的原则是“共同但有区别的责任”，这项原则适用于发达国家和发展中国家。

和其他发展中国家一样，在现代化进程中，中国被指责过度排放温室气体。但是我们经常听说内涵能源一词，它究竟是什么涵义？为什么我们在这里提出它？

内涵能源是一个新词，不仅在中国，而且在世界其他地方都是一个新词，它指的是在商品生产过程中对能源的需求。拿生产电冰箱来说，从生产所需要的钢铁到组装成品，再到运输给消费者，所有这些环节都需要各种能源才能完成。中国消耗的能源，是给别的国家提供了商品。因此，实际上中国排放的一部分废气也是因为给其他国家比如美国生产商品。

是不是可以这样说，某种程度上，中国正在为环境污染埋单，而这些污染是因为给

消费中国商品的发达国家而产生的，这样说公平吗？

在巴厘岛会议召开前，我们发布了一份报告。提供给中国和其他国家，里面显示，中国能源消耗量中将近25%是因为给其他发达国家提供商品，对其他发达国家。

中国近期颁布了一些列政策限制出口高能源消耗商品，可见中国正在努力减少工业化过程中产生的污染。但现实情况是如果中国要晋升到制造业领域上游以及完全改变出口结构，还需要相当长一段时间。在这之前，发达国家是否应当承担一些责任。

我认为提出内涵能源这个概念的作用是激发起全球范围的商讨，认识到为解决气候变化问题在全球范围内提出解决方案有多么重要，但有些国家并不认同这点。美国就认为他们无能为力，理由是中国正成为排放二氧化碳量最大的国家。

美国在这方面采取了特立独行的姿态，其他国家呢？我知道欧洲国家在这方面做了很好的表率？

确实有一些欧洲国家正在着手大量的技术转让项目，正在和中国进行合作，并且提供金融方面的支持。因此我认为这将继续是我们所见的表率作用。但我想强调一下，这当中还有很多积极的商业机遇。中国有能力研发出比其他地方价格更低的技术。以电灯泡为例，中国能够生产出节能灯泡，同时价格比欧洲低，数据表明，如果欧洲能够引进更多更便宜的节能灯泡

将会减少230万吨二氧化碳的排放。

国际社会已经达成过共识

比如京都议定书

巴厘岛路线图

在发达国家和发展中国家间达成平衡

但像美国始终不愿意承认这些共识

大致上说 你对未来持乐观还是悲观态度

我持乐观态度，在过去的12个月里取得了很大进展。巴厘岛会议上，尽管美国拒绝接受减排目标，但是他们还是接受了路线图。其实在美国，舆论界和商界都很认真地对待这个问题

很多美国城市都制定了当地的减排标准。例如加利福尼亚的贸易系统，还有更多符合美国公共旅游的利益。今年美国正在进行大选，在澳大利亚的选举上，气候变化问题举足轻重，某一政党在气候变化问题上持消极态度，但新总理对这一问题非常积极，结果他大获成功。因此我们能够看到气候变化问题正在美国选举中扮演重要的角色。

就环境问题的解决办法而言，您怎样进行优先等级的排序，比如防灾、技术转让、经济支持等。我知道所有这些都非常重要，但如果要优先选择，应该怎么排序？

首先关注的是森林过度砍伐，必须防止森林过度采伐。因为在南亚和刚果等地，森林砍伐的速度非常惊人。此外还有其他方式，比如循环替代技术也很重要。其他还有在短期内使用天然气而不是煤或石油，因为天然气是更加清洁的能源。

减少燃烧煤

是的，减少煤和石油。在短期内使用天然气，所有这些都可以帮助我们实现到2015年，保持能耗低增长的目标。但最关键的是接下来的5年，尤其是接下来的5-10年，我们需要更快地行动起来。

世界自然基金会

是世界上有名的非政府组织之一

致力于自然保护

1996年世界自然基金会在中国成立办事处

但它和中国的关系可以追溯到1980年

那一年它受到中国政府地邀请

作为第一个国际非政府组织来到中国

研究大熊猫保护问题

世界自然基金会最早来到中国是因为1980年大熊猫保护项目，但之后你们的工作延伸到了其他方面。对于这些年来角色的转换，您怎么看待？

1980年我们受邀于中国政府开始关于大熊猫的工作，后来我们拓展到其他领域。比如森林保护和水流域保护。作为在中国的非政府组织，我们可以承担三方面的责任。第一，我们把世界各地的资源和解决方案汇总到中国，帮助中国处理环境问题。在中国我们还可以进行经验展示活动，有时候会碰到一些不利因素，但是作为非政府组织，我们可以提出解决方案， 结合当地的环境状况，总结出切合实际的解决方案。

世界自然基金会在全球一百多个国家工作，在中国的工作和其他国家有何不同？

在中国的工作关注于那些对中国十分重要的环境问题，中国的部分地区将变得越来越干而另一些会变得越来越潮湿，这会导致更多的洪涝灾害和旱灾。中国西北部的高纬度湿地将会发生变化，青海的冰川正在消退，湿地将会变化。因此从这些地方发源的河流，将会发生更多的洪水。

例如从长江就可以看出这些变化，这会影响到中国的每一个人。上海不可能独善其身，因为上海是长江的入海口，会有一定的影响，会影响到我们的饮用水。一般来说我们工作的领域更广，在过去的几年里，我们推广长江流域综合管理。

您认为在环境保护上，中国最需处理的问题是什么？最严重的问题是什么？

我认为最重要一个问题是水的问题，因为水的问题同时牵涉到了其他的环境问题。众所周知国务院非常重视提供干净的饮用水，保护水源。因为在最近两年大量的案例中，有很多都是水污染问题，还有藻类在湖水中大量繁殖。

其他还有哪些问题？

最新的问题是中国生态足迹，随着中国的日益发展，消费正在不断增长。尤其是在中国的东部地区，个人收入越来越高，他们开始买更多商品，因此对生态规划有很大的影响。

你们已经在中国的一些项目上花费了3亿元人民币，在中国解决问题的最有效方法是什么？

提高人们的环保意识非常重要，第二是进行一些实际性的示例。表明如何解决环境问题，因为如果没有引导人们从意识上认识到，原来我们可以这样做，这不是经济制约能够做到的，解决方案也很难改变人们的行为。

你们在中国的未来计划是什么？

我们将继续长江流域的项目，长江流域的城市占了中国GDP的40%。水的问题非常重要，像在上海这样的城市，在未来将会发挥越来越重要的作用。比如在上海，过去的两年中，我们开展了一些新的项目。我们关注一些低碳排的城市，推广低碳排的方式。我们还关注气候变化的影响，海平面上升会引起水流问题，并会影响到饮用水问题，以及长江流域定居的居民，还有消费问题。像上海大家变得更加富裕，回消费更多的商品，会影响生态足迹，考虑到所说的这些，将有很长时间我们都会很忙。

我们有一件特殊的礼物送给您，这是你肖像的剪纸画，是中国传统的剪纸工艺。

不知道看上去是否像您？

对，很像。

非常感谢，这是您的肖像，这是中国传统的图章，这是我们栏目的中文名称，这个是英文名称，我希望你能喜欢。

大家好 欢迎收看《惊言堂》

我是主持人秦忆

2008年中国老百姓的经济生活可能发生重大变化。就在1月初，央行宣布将会严格执行从紧的货币政策。之所以发出这一表态，是因为去年中央政府决定实施新的货币政策，来抑制流动性过剩。

2007年12月5日，中央经济工作会议决定在2008年实施货币紧缩政策。这种显著不同于以往的措辞表明，实施了十多年的稳健的货币政策停止了。就在此次会议结束后没几天，央行宣布将存款准备金率提高一个多百分点，调整为14.5%。成为20多年来创纪录的新高。紧接着，12月20日，基准利率再一次被提高。单在2007年一年，央行就有六次加息，十次提高银行存款准备金率。而在2008年，这样的财政调节手段可能出现更多。为什么政府要实施货币紧缩政策？如何进一步利用金融工具？这些措施将给我们的生活带来怎样的影响？

本期节目中我们请到了樊纲教授，他是中国政府智囊团成员之一，帮助制定国家经济政策。

樊纲出生于1953年，他担任中国经济研究所所长，央行货币政策委员会委员。

1988年樊纲获得中国社科院经济学博士学位，那里被誉为中国决策的思想库，从1985年到1987年的三年间，他曾在美国国民经济研究局和哈佛大学作访问学者。他的主要研究领域是宏观经济学和过渡经济学。

樊教授，欢迎做客《惊言堂》，感谢您的到来。

众所周知，中国宣布会在2008年把货币政策从稳健调整为紧缩。我们还记得在去年六月的国务院常委会会议上，做出的提议是稳健的、适度紧缩的货币政策。但这次的措辞和上次有明显不同。2007年下半年，是什么样的经济变动促使央行做出如此重大的举措？

我觉得这称不上是明显的不同，虽然说法有变动，但当去年六月出现紧缩这个字眼时，就说明我们已经遇到货币流动性过剩和通货膨胀的问题了。同当时比起来，现在通货膨胀略有加剧，这使得人们对流动性过剩问题更为关注。货币增加同样超出了原本目标，现在的增幅为18.4%左右。

问题更严重了？

问题变得更严重，特别是贸易顺差加剧资本流入以及随之而来的外汇储备增加都体现了，经济内外失衡正导致货币流动性过剩。我认为，这就是措辞之所以变化的背景。

也就是说，现状其实在您的意料之中。

是的，在我们意料之中。这正是为什么从实际操作角度而言，2007年采取的政策已经是紧缩的政策，这一紧缩政策的效果将在新的一年里缓慢但逐步地体现出来。所以即使没有进一步动作，眼下的货币政策也已经很紧了。

紧缩可以到什么程度？

眼下还有很多空间，我不会说这些空间将被全部使用，至少目前不会。但空间仍然存在，人们现在都说存款准备金利率多么高已经达到14.5%。

商业银行已经坐立不安了。

是的，但这还不是历史最高水平。

那可能达到多高？

历史上有段时间，官方储备金利率达到了14%,但还有另一项不那么正式的，可同样需要的，所谓的预先保证金。它等于又加上了6%，所以总共可以算成20%的准备金率，也就是说还有上调的空间。在我看来，如果情况持续恶化，决策者已经做好了采取更强硬措施的准备。

那根据迄今为止的实践，哪些政策对中国最为成效卓著呢？

在我看来，还是定量措施更有效。其中开放市场运作就很有效，甚至最有效的。这是一个官方储备问题，这里的官方储备就是基础货币。因此如果你直接掌控基础货币而基础货币也正是由央行直接掌控的，就将对货币供应量产生直接影响。同时我认为，可以施加一定的行政控制，针对信用额度。这不是最好的办法，但考虑中国目前的经济体系，它的有效性可以得到保证，特别是对紧急场合的干预。但这并不是说其它一切手段都没有用，利率就依然非常有效，特别是针对家庭消费品行业。

说到存款利率，央行的姿态有些令人困惑。在去年12月的第三届中美经济战略对话之前，它强调了保持实际利率为正的重要性。对话过程中，央行行长周小川提到联邦准备金利率的调整将会影响中国的货币政策。对话结束后他表示，央行对现行利率水平表示满意，然而一个月后，我们却目睹了第六次利率上调。看起来前后的说法似乎并不连贯，我们应当如何解读央行的举措？

我认为货币当局面临巨大的两难境地摆在当局面前的选择重大而艰难，通货膨胀加剧，但美元却持续贬值。美元利率也在下降，实际上美元利率本该上升。我们这边，则是一面应付通货膨胀，一面则迎来汇率方面的更大压力。所以在我看来这是艰难的时刻。

于是中央银行犹豫了。

是的，当然。央行审视问题，等待所有选项浮出水面。试图找出最好的方案，但选择是艰难的。

从紧的货币政策将给股市和房地产市场带来怎样的影响？奥运会将给市场带来怎样的影响？

奥运会的影响无足轻重，时机完全不同。奥运前需要做一些公关，要树立一种形象。

由于持续的流动性过剩问题，作为通货膨胀指标的消费者物价指数大幅度上升。在2007年的11个月中，消费者物价指数比上年同期增长4.6%。这一数字超过了央行先前制定的3%的警戒线，房价也居高不下。在今年，实施紧缩措施不仅要使经济增长降温，同时也让我们的生活更加殷实。

看来银行业和房地产部门将要承受货币政策紧缩带来的冲击，对吗？

事实上，考虑资产泡沫的话，我们现在有资产泡沫吗？

好比两个月前，好比三个月前，至少你能看到这样一个趋势。这个趋势很明显，并且如果你持续下去风险会很大。但我想说现在仍然处在初级阶段，货币政策不会直接针对特定市场

比如股票或房地产市场，但它在各类经济结构问题，所需要考虑的范围内。

那是不是说，如果我持有银行股，我应该进行抛售。为什么是银行股？

如果准备金利率持续攀升的话，但利率也可能上调。所以向您请教。

我不清楚。但任何事情造成的影响都是多方面的，变量不止一个，存款利率、准备金利率。事实上中国的预付保证金及利率和其它国家是不同的。中国由央行向商业银行支付利息，自然这个利息不会很高，可至少是央行支付的。于是商业银行自己不必贷款，所以它会对商业银行的收益带来一定影响，但影响并不大。

您不认为银行将遭遇重挫？

如果银行没有不良贷款，受到的影响就不会很大。如果银行策略稳健，找出泡沫的危险，当泡沫消失时，经济就能实现软着陆。这一调整的目的就在于，预防泡沫，硬着陆和金融危机的生成。因为一旦发生金融危机，第一个受到损害